nebris: (Away Team)
[personal profile] nebris

The goal, methods and passions of the Tea Party in the House are all characteristic of the radical Southern right

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 01:37 am (UTC)
halialkers: George Thomas, big beard, thin hair, long forehead (Kanari-3)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
It must be noted that when Andrew Jackson did not appease them it almost triggered a civil war and when Abe Lincoln's mere election triggered mass hysteria in the South it did trigger a Civil War that was won single-handedly by one general. This has too much unfortunate truth to it, and the Southerners like myself and like George H. Thomas and MLK and all the others who do not fit in this tend to be squashed by the reactionaries.

This goes back to what I've said before that the South is an evolving democracy within an established democracy, and any attempt to address the culture clash must accept that the South's issues are far deeper even than noted here. At a fundamental core the South has yet to fundamentally accept the democratic ideas of the 1880s, let alone the 20th Century or particularly the 21st. The deeper problem is that this has co-existed with the established democracy of the North. So the South is incapable by now of realizing it's never been democratic yet, and associates dictatorship with democracy.

Unless some way is found out of that, this same sad sack of shit bunch of reactionary asshats will keep popping up regardless.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 02:42 am (UTC)
neonvincent: For general posts about politics not covered by other icons (Uncle V wants you)
From: [personal profile] neonvincent
Jimmy Kunstler may be a doomer crank and too soft for the world he thinks he wants to live in, but he was absolutely correct about the threat to democracy in this country when he identified them as corn pone fascists. This article shows that's exactly what this crew are--corn pone fascists.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 04:37 am (UTC)
neonvincent: For general posts about politics not covered by other icons (Uncle V wants you)
From: [personal profile] neonvincent
Yeah, I have that open in another tab. Want me to move my part of the discussion there?

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 04:00 pm (UTC)
halialkers: Extinct elephant-like creature with shovel tusks (Amawi H'vat Kanari)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
Nitpick-they can't be fascists because their own brand of party-state totalitarianism predated fascism by about 60 years. They might be the ur-totalitarians but not fascists. Otherwise I don't disagree with that point.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 04:29 pm (UTC)
neonvincent: For posts about cats and activities involving uniforms. (Krosp)
From: [personal profile] neonvincent
I think David Neiwert at Orcinus would probably disagree with you about your point, as he contends that the KKK was really the first fascist movement, if one uses the most succinct definition of fascism, palingenetic ultranationalism. Because of that ultranationalist component, any country's fascism is going to have elements unique to the nation (as much in the sense of people as country) that make it look different from any other country's fascism. Besides, any right-wing populist authoritarian movement, and the Tea Party is one, is going to be influenced by other successful right-wing movements, including their use of street muscle. I've told my friends on the left to start being worried about their personal safety when significant numbers of young people, particularly young white males, start hanging around Tea Party rallies. That's when they'll go from a bunch of cranky old folks to a real physical threat.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-08-04 06:16 pm (UTC)
halialkers: George Thomas, big beard, thin hair, long forehead (Kanari-3)
From: [personal profile] halialkers
Fairly sure he's not a historical leg to stand on with that. Fascism was a product of WWI, just like Communism. Take out WWI and you distort fascism itself, just as you can't approach the Soviet Union without knowledge of the Eastern Front of 1914-7. Neither can you approach the history of the US totalitarianism without being aware of the extent to which the Civil War as Ulysses S. Grant single-handedly defeating every single CS general unfortunate enough to run into him co-existed with multiple civil wars pitting Southern whites v. Southern whites.

You had your guys like Major General Thomas and CS Adjutant General Samuel Cooper, generals of the regular armies from "the wrong" section, but you also had various local dissident groups and black and white anti-CS Southerners serving in the regular US Army.

This the Planters and landowners never forgave or forgot, and this is why they clamped down with a jackboot on any sign of white or black dissent.

These two books:

http://www.amazon.com/South-Vs-Anti-Confederate-Southerners-Shaped/dp/0195156293

http://www.amazon.com/Bitterly-Divided-Souths-Inner-Civil/dp/1595581081

Should be required reading in the study of US racism and our own totalitarianism because without them a lot of Southern politics and why the USA became what it did is not understandable. It also goes far to answer Neiwert and Robinson's typical over-generalized points that gloss over the nuance of history as it was.

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